Hello
does anybody know if it is possible to use multiple kontakt instrument banks without to load all of them in RAM memory .
As a matter of fact, it appears that even if we use the same instrument bank for different midi channel kontakt loads everything in memory
So if we use 4 midi channel kontakt load 4x instrument bank in memory !
we discussed on this topic in the french varranger forum but didn"t find solution
olivier
From Kontakt Vrsion 4.3.2 it is past tense !!! Kontakt 5 load only one time
the same samples, you can load the same Insrument 128 times but samples
will be load only one time. You have to define "DFD" as instrument mode.
Try this one it is free.
new sf2 sample player bot as vsti 64bit and 32bit it can load all sound in ram.
jens k.
here is the link.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/bassmidi-vsti-by-falcosoft
@agaton : your are right . I just make the test
But What kind of data does Kontakt load in memory in addition to samples ?
even if the samples are not loaded the next times it takes a lot of memory :-\
@musik-k : thanks for the link.
I knew this VSTI but never tried it as varranger can read SF2 itself
(just some settings to change regarding program number in SF2 if we don't want tot replace additionnal banks)
olivier
Quote from: olivier71500 on June 18, 2017, 12:52:18 PM
@agaton : your are right . I just make the test
But What kind of data does Kontakt load in memory in addition to samples ?
even if the samples are not loaded the next times it takes a lot of memory :-\
All this data are only Instrument Parameters and it is many, many events. Data about
every sample (level, pan...), LFO, ADSR, Insert and Send Effects, than eventually some
Scripts etc... etc... Kontakt load all this data for every instrument in every Instrument
Bank. Instrument can be the same with same samples, but Kontakt load all data for every
one.
Thanks for your reply Agaton
These parameters represent huge amount of data :-\
Unfortunately yes !!!That's cause Kontakt is very complex and
every one parameter inclusive all Scripts must be loaded !!!
Can you explain me why hardware keyboards use so few ressources ( particularly memory) comparing to VST instruments ?
And we don't have problem with latency , audio problems , gliches ....
Does the problem come from VST programmation ? windows ?
olivier
For not answer longer in french (it's difficult for me in english) I make a short comparison.
If you put on vArranger the Korg M1 from the Korg Legacy Collection you have a M1 in... a SD5 Ketron arranger. And it's work fine. Some vsti as Kontakt want huge memory for big samples (as the piano), a hardware keybord need less memory because it's optimized ... but the sound is also less and you haven't possibiity to use another sound.
And the computer isn't dedicaced to one task, so it's not optimised for vsti... but if you use M1 Legacy your computer is much more better than a M1 hardware who cannot print your sheet music. :)
Quote from: olivier71500 on June 23, 2017, 09:13:38 AM
Can you explain me why hardware keyboards use so few ressources ( particularly memory) comparing to VST instruments ?
And we don't have problem with latency , audio problems , gliches ....
Does the problem come from VST programmation ? windows ?
olivier
There are a few important resons for all that what you wrote. First, one hardware
sound instrument has Sound Chip (in a newest generation mostly about 512MB
or 750MB, sometimes also 1GB). The best hardware instruments have 5GB, 6GB,
7GB... ROM samples (f.e. Korg Kronos, Roland Integra 7... ). This Sound Chip
is very fast and Multisamples are "branded" in this Sound Chip. It needn't to load
the samples everytime !!! They are based on Multisample waveforms and one
waveform can be used in many Sound Programs of instrument. But this samples
are (except of the bigest hardware instrments Kronos, integra...) short and mostly
in a 16Bit technology. Sound quality is far from briliant sound quality of best VST
Instruments. Software instruments (like NI Kontakt as sampler) can play a huge
sounds with 4,..5,....9,..10 and more GBs in a best 24Bit quality, but so huge
sounds must be loaded in a RAM of PC, not the whole samples, but only Attack
phase of every sample is loaded in RAM, and other part via DFD (Direct from Disc)
sample streaming in a short time of playing this Attack phase wich is loaded in a
RAM. It is very complex proccess.
But, you can have all this amazing sounds, nearly without Latency (this latency
you can't hear), without glitches, crackles, etc... etc.. but, it is very expencive.
You must have a very fast CPU, huge RAM (32GB and more), and very, very fast
storage (best M.2 with over 4.000MB/sec in RAID 0). The system must be very
good and clean tweaked, only for audio, and you must have one of the best audio
interfaces. Only in this case, you can play software instruments in a best quality
very far from sound quality of hardware instruments. Trans Audio make this systems
for professional live playing with the best software instruments (without latency,
glitches etc...). You can hear a few demos on this forum from Trans Audio system
(on Facebook of vArranger²) or direct on Trans Audio Forum where you can hear
many, many egsamples of Ketron, Yamaha, Korg and Roland Styles in the best quality.
http://transaudio.forumprofi.de/view-topic-trans-audio-styles-demos-t403.html
@Agaton : thank you for these technical informations
It is very interesting .
And I suppose Hardware are more efficient because
- they use tiny firmware VS big "messy" OS
- all program are low-level VS high-level programming for VST
...
It's a big challenge to use these big VST on standard computers !
What a pity manufacturers don't produce new sound modules like motif rack or integra
Your system sounds good but it is reserved for top level professionnal ...
olivier
Also hardware instruments have one OS and it is by "big" instruments also
complex like on software platform. It is nothing strange for newer generations
of digital synths, workstations, arrangers... that sometimes happens even crashs
from complexer hardware instruments OS. It isn't wonder, both "worlds" have
simmillar requrements !!!
You wrote Yamaha Motif, Roland Integra 7... there are two instruments from
different generations. Motif is one konventional Workstation with tousends of
sound programs, but with small Sample ROM (best Motif XF only 741MB ROM).
Roland Integra 7 the newest instrument generation with not to compare more ROM.
Roland Integra 7 is one specially class of Rompler. It has huge ROM (Sound Chip)
and can be measured with VST Instruments cause it has not only the big Sample
Content, there are also many other functions like on VST instruments. It is a
complette Rolands sound expirience in 2HE 19", in a very high quality level.
Integra is some other hardware instruments class !!! It is like a bridge between
software and hardware instrument worlds. It has new Rolands Super Natural
Sounds, plus Rolands "X" and "G" Workstation Series sounds, and last but not
least, all 12 SRX Cards. Integra 7 is a big library of Rolands history and the best
actual sounds. Only 12 SRX Expansion Cards are 768MB ROM, than about 350
Rolands Super Natural Accoustic Sounds, everyone with about 10 Velocity Switch
and Midi Control Layers, after that, Super Natural Synth Sounds from the best
Vintage Synths (Juno, JP8, JP80, JD, VP-330, Oberheim, SH-101, Yamahas FM
Synths, MC202...) 1.088 also multilayered sounds, and than about 5.000 PCM
Sounds from Fantom "X" and "G" instruments (whole Sound ROM). It is one
hardware instrument with very big sample ROM, I shall say, the bigest to time.
Also Yamahas new Montage is one instrument with about 5GB Sample ROM and
many functions like on the best software VST instruments, Korg Kronos is one
hardware Workstation with first class sound quality and about 4GB big Sample ROM.
By the way, vArranger² and f.E. Integra 7 can be "unbeatable duo". It should be
Midi Bank and PCG Routing configured and you will have powerfull arranger with
excelent sound from Integra and you can improve all this with a few good VSTi-s.
It will be much better as the best hardware arranger on the market to time !!!
This new hardware instruments with "touch" and quality of software VSTi-s
with the big Sample ROMs, excellent effects and very flexible Modulations
Matrix, are the first wave of one new concept of hardware electronic instruments,
which try to be competitive to the best VST instruments !!! Previous generation
of hardware instruments, like Yamaha Motif or Korg Triton with 10 or 20 times smaller
sample ROM, consistently low budget effects and simply modulation matrix is to
far from the quality and possibilitys of VSTi instruments.
Conclusion is that only very small number of newest hardware instruments can be
so powerfull like good VST instruments on perfect audio tweaked Windows.
Also "programming" can by hardware instruments, be very, very complex, like
by good VSTs. Maybe it is a best choice to stay "hybrid", to play hardware and
software instruments together, to have the best of both worlds.
Thanks Agaton for your explanation.
I appreciate to learn these technical "things" ( not sure about the english word)
I didn't know there was so much differences between motif and integra 7.
And the last rack module is "motif rack xs" so it's even not the last motif generation
I saw on forums that it is not possible to use different SRX at the same time . Does this restriction exist when we use it by midi ( with varranger for instance ?)
I think too that an "hybrid" setup is the best solution as you wrote (because of computer performance requirements).
If only Yamaha could release a tyros sound module. It would be great to play yamaha styles . Because even if Integra 7 has the best sounds it does not mean that they will sound better in yamaha styles that contain super articulations ...
And I suppose it require to remap all arranger track voices to match integra7 banks ( usually "GM banks" are very poor quality)
I don't know if super natural voices are equivalent to super articulations ?
ketron released SD40 module but it's an arranger not a sound module as SD1000 (it's a lot more expensive) and contain only 256 presets if i remember ( vs 6000 for integra 7)
olivier
Motif Rack XS...no it is not right !!! This is "mini version" of XF models. Rack XS has only 355MB Sample ROM.
Motif XF 741MB. It is more than double !!!
https://de.yamaha.com/de/products/music_production/synthesizers/motif-rack_xs/specs.html#product-tabs
https://de.yamaha.com/de/products/music_production/synthesizers/motif_xf/specs.html
By Yamaha are Motifs not in the "first division", but Montage is one of the best hardware instruments at all.
With 5,67 GB sampling ROM and excellent features, Montage is on the top position by Yamahas Workstations.
Montage is in the same quality segment like Roland Integra 7 or Korg Kronos. Motif is far from it. Even the new
Yamahas MOXF has the same sampling ROM like the best Motif XF (741MB).
It is huge difference between Motif XF and Integra 7, but very huge, and it is also huge difference between
Super Articulation Voices of Tyros and Super Natural Voices of Integra 7. Super Natural Voices are right competitive
with good VST Instruments !!! They are not equivalent to Super Articulation sounds. This is also one big reason to
play "hybrid", you can make Super Articulation sounds from Yamaha f.E. in NI Kontakt. In "hybrid" mode you can
make with Midi Routings all Sound Engines Compatible with Styles or better with vArranger². In Trans Audio Sound
Engine f.E. we made all this Super Articulation Voices and implement it in Sound Engine, so it is no problem to play
any Yamaha Style, also from Yamaha Tyros 5 !!! It isn't "target" that Yamahas Styles sounds like in Yamahas Keyboards,
the Styles have to sounds better, this is the right target and this is the reason why to play vArranger² and not one of usual
arrangers.
Four SRX sound cards can be used in a same time on Integra 7 (only this bring it about 1.000 legendary Roland
sounds playable in the same time), but not SRX sounds are the "Joker" in Integra 7, there are Super Natural Sounds.
GM or GS Bank from Integra 7 is not, as usual" low quality, cause Integra 7 is not "usual" sound module. In it's GM2 Bank
are at most Super Natural Sounds !!!Also, you can made your own "GM Bank" in Integra 7, or some different GM Banks !!!
We discus here about usage of some workstation with vArranger2, and vArranger2 make all Style formats sound-compatible
to GM or GS or GM2 or XG or Ketron standard, don't forget it. It is one of the best functions of vArranger2. Also one amazing
features of vArranger² is to use Instrument Definitions (for hardware and software instruments) that make possible to
choice any one sound program from any one Instrument on Style Tracks without GM, GM2, GS, XG or any other standard,
simply choice the sound what you need on one Style track from Instrument Definition file, you don't need to worry about
midi standards. Save this Style so, and... that's it !!!
It is not so important how many Sound Programs has one hardware workstation, it is most important how good are sounds
what it has !!! Ketron SD40 has very good Sound Engine, SD1000 also. This Sound Engines sounds very "Live" and very natural.
In French we would say that TA Sound Engine is "l'arlesienne" !!!
My French is "a little bit" very old, but I hope I have understand what
"l'arlesienne" means !!! If I understud it right, I shall say, you are right.
Nevertheless I hoppe you will translate it for me.
L' "Arlesienne" is something that one always expects and never comes !!.
Beforehand... I haven't understud your sentence on French language, it wasn't on right place !!!
Mistake ! TA Sound Engine is about one year on the market !!! Even, some members from this
forum have ordered TA Sound Engine and play long time on it. Your information is not right !!!
Also, I wrote in a few posts here some links to about 20 demos of factory Styles from Yamaha,
Korg, Roland, and Ketron Keyboards, played with TA Sound Engine. Factory Styles because, it is
easyer to compare it's quality with original sounding of adequate Keyboards. Although, sound
quality level of TA Sound Engine can be heared without any comparation. This Boot TA Sound
Engine is about 2.5GB samples with over 600 sounds and distributed in 10 SF2 Banks. This is
important information cause of value of computer RAM. It have to be one computer with 4GB
absolute minimum of RAM, more is better, cause whole 2.5GB samples wll be loaded in vArranger²
(direct in RAM). Why in vArrangerSynth and not one other SF2 Player, cause vArrangerSynth is
simply the best SF2 Player on the market. As one software instrument is vArrangerSynth very fast
(like a "bolid"), f.E. much faster as NI Kontaktakt. Cause of that vArrangerSynth has very small CPU
usage. On one Trans Audio System (or instrument) based on i7-6770HQ only 5% by playing of one
much complex Style with all 8 Style tracks and Latency 1.5ms. Than it suport 3 central effects,
Portamento function and very good Editor in vArranger² with ADHSR Amp Envelope, two LFO-s,
Wha-Wha, Velocity and Filter Modulation, Transposition... and other important functions and
modulations like a new amazing Drum Mixer.
TA Sound Engine Content
(https://s16.postimg.org/60l79n2ph/Boot_TA_Sound_Engine.jpg)
Some Mega Voices from Yamaha in TA Sound Engine
(https://s11.postimg.org/lf7eld8cj/TA_MV.jpg)
Exclussive for you one demo of Funk Style from Trans Audio Instrument, naturally played with
TA Sound Engine, no one VST instrument, no one hardware instrument, all what you hear is only
TA Sound Engine (SF2 thru vArrangerSynth):
TA Funk 1 (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/g10t6b56sq/TA_Funk_2.mp3)
The same Style, and same TA Sound Engine, but other sounds, and little bit Ambient VST on
Drum Tracks and Compressor VST in Master of vArranger² to demonstrate different sounds of
TA Sound Engine, and how deep can be one Style in vArranger² edited and changed only with
a few VST Plugin Effects and some sound editing in vArranger²-s Sound Editor.
TA Funk 2 (http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/vxgp810jnv/New_TA_Drum_Kits.mp3)
Olivier71500, so one Sound Engine like TA Sound Engine can be only one for vArranger² and
can be played on middle class computer (with detailed Windows tweaking for audio) without
audible Latency, glitches, crackles and other noises. Also few Style tracks can be played from
VST instruments without any problems, but don't exaggerate with it. For intensive VST instruments
professional usage (specially of big VST instruments), you must have one powerful Audio PC to
play all sounds on VST Instruments for vArranger², PC must be really very strong, with huge
performance (like I wrote in the first post), Other way to have high quality sounds, is one good
hardware Sound Engine from newest generation (hybrid system).
So Ta Sound Engine is not an Arlesienne but where can we find the link for download, perhaps is this link the Arlesienne. ;)
You can contact me on http://transaudio.forumprofi.de/index.php
and after registering or loging, write to me on PP.
Also you can make it direct via E-Mail agaton@t-online.de to order
TA Sound Engine.
You become Link for download TA Sound Engine, and some tips to
use it in vA2 for best sounding (which Mode, what of effects, live
real time maximizing or leveling, to become best and powerful
sound, etc... etc... ).
Thank you and what the price ?
It isn't so high as you probably expect !!! Please, come to Trans Audio Forum
and write one PP to me, or send me e-mail. I shall write all about transaction
from TA Sound Engine to you. It is much better as here all about it to discus.
I hope you understand me !!!
Bizarre ????
What is "bizarre" ? Is it bizarre that I am professional and have respect and know
about business codex. Is it bizarre that I not write the price of my product, on the
vArranger² site ? It would be bizarre if I wrote the price on the portal of vArranger²
cause here distribute Dan very simmilar product (Sound Banks for vArranger²).
Is it still bizarre ? I am sure it is not, it is extrem opposite.
Here are still few demos from TA Sound Engine. Dan linked all of this on vArranger²
Facebook together with all other demos, but I am not sure if anyone who search this
demos can find it.
TA Sound Engine on vArranger². All Styles are Factory Styles from different Keyboards.
On all Styles are Drum Kits processed with Ambient effect, which make Drums "big" and
powerfull and Style become "live" and "real instruments" feeling. There are also some
other small audio tricks on whole Style applied, to become more authenticity and reality.
All that I had implement in a TA Sound Engine, and so like you hear demos, sounding
also the Styles.
Swing (http://kiwi6.com/file/il2n3l9h7j?autostart)
Adria Beat (http://kiwi6.com/file/81ma5qloor?autostart)
Fox (http://kiwi6.com/file/1azinibriv?autostart)
Big Band (http://kiwi6.com/file/z9eix7ubbn?autostart)
Thanks Agaton for all theses explanations
about TA sound engine :
I didn't understand if it was just software/soundbanks or if there was a part of hardware component ?
Does it require specific hardware ?
olivier
It is only software. Sound Banks in a SF2 format.
The same sounds I made also in Kontakt format.
You don't need any specially hardware.
Hello agaton, demo sound well. Perhaps I will write to you later because actualy I not use vArranger with sf2 but only with vsti for my electro project. If I make some gigs sometime the soundbank of Dan are also goods for this.
Thank you for your answer, the TA Sound Engine is more clarity for me.
Thanx Lylo !!! I hope that a few user of TA Sound Engine, from
vArranger² Forum, report here their expiriences with TA Sound
Engine.
I hope so because on your website they speak an unknown language . they should come from earth but where ?
I didn't understand anything .
Is there a german / english version of you site ?
olivier
To time no, but I shall make it. You can also now write on English or Deutsch, almost all,
speak one of this two languages. Everything that interests you about Trans Audio Systems
(Instruments), you can ask and you will bekome right answer. Trans Audio Systems are very
complex. In the same time they are DigitalMixer, Workstation, Arranger (based on vArranger²),
Audio & Midi Player and Recorder (two Track stereo or 16 or more Tracks in the same time,
you can Recorded on the fly, without stop to play). Trans Audio instruments are immediately
ready to play with tousends of Styles and tousends of sounds. This machines are "audio Swiss
knive", with huge performance and thousends functions. More about it, you can ask on the
Trans Audio Forum. languages on the Forum are all languages from Ex Yogoslawia, cause of
that you hadn't idea which language it is, sounds like Alien languge... hahahaha.